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	<title>Comments on: Is academia failing us by not teaching Web 2.0 skills?</title>
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	<link>http://www.digitalsolid.com/2008/11/07/is-academia-failing-us-by-not-teaching-web-20-skills/</link>
	<description>Marketing Technology Musings and Tips by Jeff Larche</description>
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		<title>By: Up to Speed &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Networking on the new frontier: It takes a trip to Web 2.0 to find your friends are neighbors</title>
		<link>http://www.digitalsolid.com/2008/11/07/is-academia-failing-us-by-not-teaching-web-20-skills/comment-page-1/#comment-4904</link>
		<dc:creator>Up to Speed &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Networking on the new frontier: It takes a trip to Web 2.0 to find your friends are neighbors</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Apr 2009 18:18:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.digitalsolid.com/?p=715#comment-4904</guid>
		<description>[...] marketer who lives in Milwaukee. He reads many of the same things I like to read and writes about topics I find fascinating.  Jeff pointed me to one of his archived blog posts which includes this [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] marketer who lives in Milwaukee. He reads many of the same things I like to read and writes about topics I find fascinating.  Jeff pointed me to one of his archived blog posts which includes this [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Quick</title>
		<link>http://www.digitalsolid.com/2008/11/07/is-academia-failing-us-by-not-teaching-web-20-skills/comment-page-1/#comment-4568</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Quick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Nov 2008 02:58:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.digitalsolid.com/?p=715#comment-4568</guid>
		<description>I can&#039;t answer the central question, &quot;Where are the best educational programs for tomorrow&#039;s knowledge workers?&quot; today. But I sure hope that in 5 years my answer is, &quot;Right here, in my town,&quot; and that I played a role in starting it.  

The challenge for any of us who believe social media and Web 2.0 are more than just a passing fad - that they are changing the way the world forms relationships, shares information, spreads ideas, and does business - is to gather evidence (Obama campaign), make a case for our argument, draft a syllabus, and start teaching.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can&#8217;t answer the central question, &#8220;Where are the best educational programs for tomorrow&#8217;s knowledge workers?&#8221; today. But I sure hope that in 5 years my answer is, &#8220;Right here, in my town,&#8221; and that I played a role in starting it.  </p>
<p>The challenge for any of us who believe social media and Web 2.0 are more than just a passing fad &#8211; that they are changing the way the world forms relationships, shares information, spreads ideas, and does business &#8211; is to gather evidence (Obama campaign), make a case for our argument, draft a syllabus, and start teaching.</p>
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		<title>By: critter</title>
		<link>http://www.digitalsolid.com/2008/11/07/is-academia-failing-us-by-not-teaching-web-20-skills/comment-page-1/#comment-4559</link>
		<dc:creator>critter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Nov 2008 19:05:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.digitalsolid.com/?p=715#comment-4559</guid>
		<description>Jeff,
Very interesting thoughts, particularly agree with Sam and Augie on much of what they said.  

In my opinion, I think immersing myself in engaging &#039;interactively&#039; by adopting and utilizing mainly Twitter, LinkedIn, and Facebook is teaching me more than any academic medium would.  Web 2.0 is  &#039;interactive&#039; and I think that concept is difficult to bring that experience into a traditional classroom setting.  Then again, I completed some of my coursework for my Business Degree through Lakeland College&#039;s Online program and it has been awhile since I sat in a traditional classroom in a college; I am sure that there are things that have changed a lot since then.  Nobody had laptops or cellphones when I was in school.  

The best way I have found to learn more about interactive and Web 2.0 is through &#039;self-taught&#039; and a lot of reading; mostly on the Internet.  Even more valuable are ones I follow on Twitter that I would regard as &#039;experts&#039; in the new media / interactive web, Chris Brogan, Jim Long, Michael Marlatt, Dan Schawbel, Warren Whitlock to name a few.  And let&#039;s not forget local folks in Milwaukee whom I have learned a lot from such as yourself, Augie Ray, Tannette Elie, Al Krueger, Steve Glynn aka Spreenkler and many others.  

I would love to hear about any classes or courses that would be available at a college or higher education setting so I think you raise an important question.  I&#039;ll be interested and watching to see what you find out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeff,<br />
Very interesting thoughts, particularly agree with Sam and Augie on much of what they said.  </p>
<p>In my opinion, I think immersing myself in engaging &#8216;interactively&#8217; by adopting and utilizing mainly Twitter, LinkedIn, and Facebook is teaching me more than any academic medium would.  Web 2.0 is  &#8216;interactive&#8217; and I think that concept is difficult to bring that experience into a traditional classroom setting.  Then again, I completed some of my coursework for my Business Degree through Lakeland College&#8217;s Online program and it has been awhile since I sat in a traditional classroom in a college; I am sure that there are things that have changed a lot since then.  Nobody had laptops or cellphones when I was in school.  </p>
<p>The best way I have found to learn more about interactive and Web 2.0 is through &#8217;self-taught&#8217; and a lot of reading; mostly on the Internet.  Even more valuable are ones I follow on Twitter that I would regard as &#8216;experts&#8217; in the new media / interactive web, Chris Brogan, Jim Long, Michael Marlatt, Dan Schawbel, Warren Whitlock to name a few.  And let&#8217;s not forget local folks in Milwaukee whom I have learned a lot from such as yourself, Augie Ray, Tannette Elie, Al Krueger, Steve Glynn aka Spreenkler and many others.  </p>
<p>I would love to hear about any classes or courses that would be available at a college or higher education setting so I think you raise an important question.  I&#8217;ll be interested and watching to see what you find out.</p>
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		<title>By: mike kunde</title>
		<link>http://www.digitalsolid.com/2008/11/07/is-academia-failing-us-by-not-teaching-web-20-skills/comment-page-1/#comment-4558</link>
		<dc:creator>mike kunde</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Nov 2008 04:06:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.digitalsolid.com/?p=715#comment-4558</guid>
		<description>Wow!  What a fascinating discussion.  I find it a bit ironic that the web was born in academia, and now academia can&#039;t keep up with it!  When I was in college, the web was new.  At that time there simply were no web curricula.  Based on what I&#039;m reading that must still be the case.

Having worked as a web developer and graphic artist since 1999, it is clear to me that the web (whichever version it is currently in) is the &quot;front line&quot; of communication in the modern marketplace.  It is a tool for networking and accessing information -- both of which are essential to a successful career.  Students are in college because they want the best career opportunities available. They will need web skills in order to attain that goal.  What kind of college wouldn&#039;t take an active interest in that fact?

As a web site designer, I need to stay current on new software, new standards, new practices, new ideas and new trends among other web designers.  This industry requires non-stop learning.  When I need to quickly get familiar with new web development tools or skills, my favorite resource on the web is Lynda.com.  It&#039;s not an online college by any means.  But in the past few years their library of video courses has allowed me to learn new technologies, skills and tools faster and more flexibly than any college-based alternatives I have found.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow!  What a fascinating discussion.  I find it a bit ironic that the web was born in academia, and now academia can&#8217;t keep up with it!  When I was in college, the web was new.  At that time there simply were no web curricula.  Based on what I&#8217;m reading that must still be the case.</p>
<p>Having worked as a web developer and graphic artist since 1999, it is clear to me that the web (whichever version it is currently in) is the &#8220;front line&#8221; of communication in the modern marketplace.  It is a tool for networking and accessing information &#8212; both of which are essential to a successful career.  Students are in college because they want the best career opportunities available. They will need web skills in order to attain that goal.  What kind of college wouldn&#8217;t take an active interest in that fact?</p>
<p>As a web site designer, I need to stay current on new software, new standards, new practices, new ideas and new trends among other web designers.  This industry requires non-stop learning.  When I need to quickly get familiar with new web development tools or skills, my favorite resource on the web is Lynda.com.  It&#8217;s not an online college by any means.  But in the past few years their library of video courses has allowed me to learn new technologies, skills and tools faster and more flexibly than any college-based alternatives I have found.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Larche</title>
		<link>http://www.digitalsolid.com/2008/11/07/is-academia-failing-us-by-not-teaching-web-20-skills/comment-page-1/#comment-4557</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Larche</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Nov 2008 22:40:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.digitalsolid.com/?p=715#comment-4557</guid>
		<description>Small world, Douglas.

Thanks for contributing. I agree that I hope this is a question that&#039;s being asked all over this country.

Significantly I&#039;ve received no specific citations of curricula. I know there are some out there, but they apparently are pretty rare.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Small world, Douglas.</p>
<p>Thanks for contributing. I agree that I hope this is a question that&#8217;s being asked all over this country.</p>
<p>Significantly I&#8217;ve received no specific citations of curricula. I know there are some out there, but they apparently are pretty rare.</p>
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		<title>By: Douglas Karr</title>
		<link>http://www.digitalsolid.com/2008/11/07/is-academia-failing-us-by-not-teaching-web-20-skills/comment-page-1/#comment-4556</link>
		<dc:creator>Douglas Karr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Nov 2008 22:32:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.digitalsolid.com/?p=715#comment-4556</guid>
		<description>IUPUI recently had me teach a J320 class on Marketing and Advertising and how Corporate Blogging was impacting the industry.  The professor, in reviewing the courseware and the text book, was horrified not to find ANY Web 2.0 material in the book.

Kudos to IUPUI for reaching out, hopefully there are more professors that see the opportunities to do this with their regional SEO and Social Media Consultants.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>IUPUI recently had me teach a J320 class on Marketing and Advertising and how Corporate Blogging was impacting the industry.  The professor, in reviewing the courseware and the text book, was horrified not to find ANY Web 2.0 material in the book.</p>
<p>Kudos to IUPUI for reaching out, hopefully there are more professors that see the opportunities to do this with their regional SEO and Social Media Consultants.</p>
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		<title>By: Ryan Graves</title>
		<link>http://www.digitalsolid.com/2008/11/07/is-academia-failing-us-by-not-teaching-web-20-skills/comment-page-1/#comment-4555</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan Graves</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Nov 2008 22:24:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.digitalsolid.com/?p=715#comment-4555</guid>
		<description>@augieray - it wouldn&#039;t been pretty tough to have this level of discussion and valuable discourse with the social web. I found out about it via twitter, I commented on a blog, then it was presented to a college class...perfect example of web meets world!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@augieray &#8211; it wouldn&#8217;t been pretty tough to have this level of discussion and valuable discourse with the social web. I found out about it via twitter, I commented on a blog, then it was presented to a college class&#8230;perfect example of web meets world!</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Larche</title>
		<link>http://www.digitalsolid.com/2008/11/07/is-academia-failing-us-by-not-teaching-web-20-skills/comment-page-1/#comment-4553</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Larche</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Nov 2008 18:08:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.digitalsolid.com/?p=715#comment-4553</guid>
		<description>Sam, I think you nailed it when you said &quot;For someone to really get a hold on the term and the trend, they need to spend a lot of time reading/playing/testing/talking/watching/etc.&quot;

Maybe academia should butt out of educating students on this type of communication (and yes, I agree Augie -- it&#039;s all communicating). Maybe it should be like physical fitness -- something else that by college we should know how to stay physically healthy.

Or perhaps it&#039;s like reading and writing, two things that are assumed as baseline skills.

Sam and Voxana both got to the crux of relying on academia: &quot;Things move too fast.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sam, I think you nailed it when you said &#8220;For someone to really get a hold on the term and the trend, they need to spend a lot of time reading/playing/testing/talking/watching/etc.&#8221;</p>
<p>Maybe academia should butt out of educating students on this type of communication (and yes, I agree Augie &#8212; it&#8217;s all communicating). Maybe it should be like physical fitness &#8212; something else that by college we should know how to stay physically healthy.</p>
<p>Or perhaps it&#8217;s like reading and writing, two things that are assumed as baseline skills.</p>
<p>Sam and Voxana both got to the crux of relying on academia: &#8220;Things move too fast.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Voxana</title>
		<link>http://www.digitalsolid.com/2008/11/07/is-academia-failing-us-by-not-teaching-web-20-skills/comment-page-1/#comment-4552</link>
		<dc:creator>Voxana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Nov 2008 17:38:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.digitalsolid.com/?p=715#comment-4552</guid>
		<description>A University Webmaster friend of mine says &#039;the real skills are in adapting to the latest tech not being &#039;taught&#039; the technique&#039;

I say, it&#039;s ok not to know a certain technology or Web 2.0 thing, but not it&#039;s not ok to have no idea how to find the answers, ie through personal or professional networking and Search Engine use. 

The net moves too fast to depend on academia to teach us how things work. By the time curriculum is drawn up, the tech is usually obsolete.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A University Webmaster friend of mine says &#8216;the real skills are in adapting to the latest tech not being &#8216;taught&#8217; the technique&#8217;</p>
<p>I say, it&#8217;s ok not to know a certain technology or Web 2.0 thing, but not it&#8217;s not ok to have no idea how to find the answers, ie through personal or professional networking and Search Engine use. </p>
<p>The net moves too fast to depend on academia to teach us how things work. By the time curriculum is drawn up, the tech is usually obsolete.</p>
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		<title>By: Sam Dodge</title>
		<link>http://www.digitalsolid.com/2008/11/07/is-academia-failing-us-by-not-teaching-web-20-skills/comment-page-1/#comment-4551</link>
		<dc:creator>Sam Dodge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Nov 2008 17:22:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.digitalsolid.com/?p=715#comment-4551</guid>
		<description>First off, there needs to be a discussion of the term &quot;web 2.0.&quot; When it was first used, the amount of websites it encompassed was small, and has since grown to include many sites that hold true to the original ideas, and many sites that are just faking their way into a trend.

For someone to really get a hold on the term and the trend, they need to spend a lot of time reading/playing/testing/talking/watching/etc. I think Ryan will attest to that. It&#039;s only after study of the beginnings and the evolution of &quot;web 2.0&quot; can a person start to get a hold on what the term really has meant to not only the web community but also regular social and business communities.

As far as academia, this is just another situation in which they are nearly powerless. Teachers and professors would have a really tough time teaching most of this stuff because they don&#039;t have the time to be fully immersed in it. What the teachers need to be doing is taking their tried and true teaching methods and figuring out how to apply them to what they want the students to learn about web 2.0 and the internet/tech world today.

They need to come at this problem not from a position of &quot;What can I teach these kids?&quot; but from a position of &quot;What can I do so these kids learn?&quot; Our teachers are smart, but I feel like most do not want to attempt teaching this stuff because they don&#039;t feel like they&#039;re experts on the subject matter. And since very few people are experts, and very few of those are teaching about it, everyone has to learn on their own.

As far as what can Nebraska educators do? Nearly everything that anyone else can do (in regards to learning the subject). Projects, case studies, experiments, testings, readings not from books but from the great industry blogs. And while these blogs are the best texts right now, like any textbook there needs to be an honest and contemplative study of what they contain. Some are full of truth and others have been corrupted by monetization and rote devotion to business plans. 

The students need to examine the human aspects of the changes brought forth by web 2.0, not just how to make money from it.

I&#039;ve loved watching the web change over the past few years, but it&#039;s definitely taken a lot of my time to keep up with what&#039;s going on. I&#039;ve stopped using more web 2.0 sites than most people know exist, but that&#039;s how things go when you&#039;re an early-adopter enthusiast.

This is a (very small) list of things that have stuck with me in the web 2.0 world. These are instances where people or ideas have worked better than most, and have allowed users to create honest and useful connections:

Tracy Apps and Seesmic. Gary Vaynerchuk and wine. Robert Scoble and startups. Chris Pirillo and anything. Twitter. Meetup.com. Flickr. Revision3 and Diggnation.

I hope I made sense.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First off, there needs to be a discussion of the term &#8220;web 2.0.&#8221; When it was first used, the amount of websites it encompassed was small, and has since grown to include many sites that hold true to the original ideas, and many sites that are just faking their way into a trend.</p>
<p>For someone to really get a hold on the term and the trend, they need to spend a lot of time reading/playing/testing/talking/watching/etc. I think Ryan will attest to that. It&#8217;s only after study of the beginnings and the evolution of &#8220;web 2.0&#8243; can a person start to get a hold on what the term really has meant to not only the web community but also regular social and business communities.</p>
<p>As far as academia, this is just another situation in which they are nearly powerless. Teachers and professors would have a really tough time teaching most of this stuff because they don&#8217;t have the time to be fully immersed in it. What the teachers need to be doing is taking their tried and true teaching methods and figuring out how to apply them to what they want the students to learn about web 2.0 and the internet/tech world today.</p>
<p>They need to come at this problem not from a position of &#8220;What can I teach these kids?&#8221; but from a position of &#8220;What can I do so these kids learn?&#8221; Our teachers are smart, but I feel like most do not want to attempt teaching this stuff because they don&#8217;t feel like they&#8217;re experts on the subject matter. And since very few people are experts, and very few of those are teaching about it, everyone has to learn on their own.</p>
<p>As far as what can Nebraska educators do? Nearly everything that anyone else can do (in regards to learning the subject). Projects, case studies, experiments, testings, readings not from books but from the great industry blogs. And while these blogs are the best texts right now, like any textbook there needs to be an honest and contemplative study of what they contain. Some are full of truth and others have been corrupted by monetization and rote devotion to business plans. </p>
<p>The students need to examine the human aspects of the changes brought forth by web 2.0, not just how to make money from it.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve loved watching the web change over the past few years, but it&#8217;s definitely taken a lot of my time to keep up with what&#8217;s going on. I&#8217;ve stopped using more web 2.0 sites than most people know exist, but that&#8217;s how things go when you&#8217;re an early-adopter enthusiast.</p>
<p>This is a (very small) list of things that have stuck with me in the web 2.0 world. These are instances where people or ideas have worked better than most, and have allowed users to create honest and useful connections:</p>
<p>Tracy Apps and Seesmic. Gary Vaynerchuk and wine. Robert Scoble and startups. Chris Pirillo and anything. Twitter. Meetup.com. Flickr. Revision3 and Diggnation.</p>
<p>I hope I made sense.</p>
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